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Debate - Closing opened doors
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| Raptor | Date: Saturday, 2012-01-14, 14:33 | Message # 1 |
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| I realized that a lot of people, also some members, try to close an opened when they encouter them. Well, imho this is just in about half of the cases really a good tactic. Let's consider the alternatives:
While the team moves stealth the closing of a door produces clearly a visual and an audible target indicator. Therefore it would be better to treat the door as opening and scan if possible. Futhermore some door can't be closed safely (see realism thread also).
There are situations (especially multiple opened doors) where the threat arising from the danger zone behind the opened door justify to close the door (and taking the disadvantage of the additional movement and noise), this decision should be made by the EL.
When the team encounters the opened door in dynamic mode, the target indicators produced by closing the door are (almost) irrelevant. But since we made already a lot of noise, sus may be alerted and therefore start to threat a civ. So we should try to maintain aggression and speed, ofc with respect to our team safety.
So the alternative to close the door would be to move in dynamic. Mb with a tacaid. The decision between both options depends on the circumstances:
- is the current room really under control? (if not, close the door) ["under control" is not equal to "clear"]
- how large is the next room? (very small, go in; medium, depends on your backup; large, better close)
- do you have backup behind you?
- are there more opened doors?
- are the sus aggresive, i.e. is it likely that the injure or kill civs?
If the EL enters the room as part of the assault team he might make the decision. But the officer who encounters the door first might be able to estimate the situation better and therefore make a quick decison if needed*.
[*Yes, we have the basic rule "do not enter a new room without order". But as already mentioned due to our use of tacaids in the current room, the sus behind the opened door may already be alerted and therefore it is not really a "new room" but an extension of the current one.
Take a look at the dynami entry lesson: "move as far as you can, without exposing yourself to completely new dangerous areas and without crossing the fireline of your teammates". It's already common sense that we breach corners during a dynamic entry. That's almost the same situation as an opened door.]
"Teamwork is essential, it gives them someone else to shoot at."
Murphy's Laws of Combat #9
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| Booone | Date: Saturday, 2012-01-14, 17:25 | Message # 2 |
Group: Lieutenant
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| The game mechanics do not mind this behaviour. So the only practical reason to do this (which is not really a practical one) would be to maintain realism.
But yes I agree with you. On a dynamic entry the stealth will be broken and you can close doors freely. BUT you should not move further on your own, ever. Chances are you will be surprised, there will be too many suspects, the team wont notice and you are alone and if we do not know the map (as you said you would want us to pretend to not know if we do) we won't know what size the room is and could only guess. So moving further right away is not a good idea. But if the leader wants to enter the room and "agrees" on it he can put another dynamic entry order which won't require the set formation to be held and clear the room ASAP.
When moving stealth we will usually have time to think about what to do with each door so that will be up to the leader.
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| Raptor | Date: Saturday, 2012-01-14, 18:18 | Message # 3 |
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Group: Commander
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| Quote (Booone) The game mechanics do not mind this behaviour.
Well, the game usually does not consider closed doors. Nevertheless the AI in a small side room can react on an entry in the next room. And as already mentioned: I like realism.
Even if you don't know the map, you can make an educated guess, even better when you have a look inside the room through the opened door.
"Teamwork is essential, it gives them someone else to shoot at."
Murphy's Laws of Combat #9
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| ShadowManu | Date: Sunday, 2012-01-15, 16:36 | Message # 4 |
Group: NCO
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| Yeah guys. One of the most hard criterias to fulfill is the reach of an officer in a dynamic entry. Things like to take a covering position instead of clearing because is a damn big room is something to discuss.
My position is that, if the situation requires to immediately assault that area and it has been analyzed the risks, the reach and capacity, you may assault the room with your "wingman" in time 
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| Raptor | Date: Sunday, 2012-01-15, 16:44 | Message # 5 |
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| Quote (ShadowManu) My position is that, if the situation requires to immediately assault that area and it has been analyzed the risks, the reach and capacity, you may assault the room with your "wingman" in time smile
Agree.
"Teamwork is essential, it gives them someone else to shoot at."
Murphy's Laws of Combat #9
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| SAS_Random | Date: Monday, 2012-01-16, 06:17 | Message # 6 |
Group: Registered
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| Again from a point of realism, yes tangos are alerted by flashbangs in nearby rooms. If you leave the door open, they don't know when you are coming so it gives you small advantage. If you close the door, they know you are coming the next time it opens. Closing a door could be considered a legitimate distraction to pull focus away from an alternate entry point. In general, leave doors as you find them unless you intend to wedge them or use as a distraction. Clearing team could drop a flash through the opening and proceed after they call for back up from the EL or hall security officers. Because we are significantly undermanned compared to how many officers we would have in real life you always trade away realism and clear more rooms than you would normally be tasked with. A team of 5 would be used up after clearing 1 or 2 occupied rooms. In game we have to clear the entire multi-level structure ;-)
SAS_Vet_Random
Lt. Colonel (Retired)
22nd SAS Elite Virtual Regiment
www.sasclan.org
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| TheIceMan | Date: Wednesday, 2012-04-25, 11:22 | Message # 7 |
Group: NCO
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| Well I just want to add: Always close door BEHIND you. Who enter last into the room must close door behind. One more opened door = another danger zone. Imagine you have to scan a room but you left door behind you opened and when you are scanning other room suddenly tango (runner) will spot you from room behind you and you are dead. Well in this case its your fault cause last man of the team didnt close the door behind your team. So be careful in that.
Why make the game (life) more complicated huh?
No Retreat No Surrender
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| Sokol | Date: Wednesday, 2012-04-25, 13:24 | Message # 8 |
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Group: Ally
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| Agreed.Closing doors behind you is definetly a good thing.
Quote (TheIceMan) Imagine you have to scan a room but you left door behind you opened and when you are scanning other room suddenly tango (runner) will spot you from room behind you and you are dead. Well in this case its your fault cause last man of the team didnt close the door behind your team.
If it's only 2 or maybe 3 man team then closing doors is a good idea.
But there is a reason why we often use RG 
If a suspect runs from that closed/not closed door it is RG's job to cover it.So even if the door is closed ,someone needs to cover it.But of course closing the door gives you an advantage since you will see and hear the door being opened and by thus gain more time to prepeare and react.
Message edited by Sokol - Wednesday, 2012-04-25, 15:15 |
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