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Forums » Discussions » Tactics and Techniques » Idea - EL's with Bang Launchers
Idea - EL's with Bang Launchers
DrPhilDate: Monday, 2012-05-14, 03:33 | Message # 1
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Well, the member rules state that I should be involved with developing tactics as much as possible. I figured I would share something that I have been thinking about lately...

I have noticed that teams running out of flash bangs is a regular occurrence. This leads to team confusion and disorganization. People trade formation positions and there are delays before entries are made. While AST members are mature enough to properly deal with this, I believe a good solution may be for element leaders to take flash bang launchers with 1 ammo pouch (and obviously a handgun as secondary). By nature, good leaders are able to get their team to do all of the work in an effective manner. A leader should not even need to use a weapon if his/her team is doing a good job. But a leader with a bang launcher can solve the problem of running out/low on bangs, has the ability to place flashes farther than can be thrown (thus saving lives and increasing scores) and is able to deliver the bangs where they need to go (As opposed to having team members making mistakes).

With all of this stated, this is merely one idea that might appeal to some and not to others. I like this idea, it has worked for me in the past. What do you all think?

- Dr. Phil
 
RaptorDate: Monday, 2012-05-14, 03:57 | Message # 2
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Quote (DrPhil)
I figured I would share something that I have been thinking about lately...

Nice smile Exactly for this reason we have this section.

About the idea itself:
The basics are already mentioned in the LL thread: http://ast.ucoz.org/forum/21-166-1 [but just in really short words wink ]
A launcher combined with an ammo pouch gives us a hugh number of tacaids (not only flash). The EL position is a good choice for a supporting tool like the launcher.
But don't forget that the use of the launcher adds an additional risk to the team: one member is just armed with a small handgun instead of an smg or more powerful weapon. If the element is big enough, this risk might be low and acceptable.
Futhermore the range of the lauchner is not really useful for flashbangs: they are mostly used in CQB, deployed in close proximity to our entry point.
And imho it's difficult to place the tacaids from the launcher exact in some situations (mb I just lack of training in this point...).
As you already mentioned: trained players are able to swap positions if they run out of tacaids.

Conclusion: the lauchner, like every other tools/device/weapon, has its advantages and disadvantages, and it should be considered as option when we prepare our mission. Mb you are right and we should use it more often.


"Teamwork is essential, it gives them someone else to shoot at."
Murphy's Laws of Combat #9
 
OppturDate: Monday, 2012-05-14, 13:48 | Message # 3
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This can be used on small maps, with a low number of tangos, or even medium-sized maps.

When we have many tangos, it's very hard to have only 4 properly armed guys.
 
DrPhilDate: Monday, 2012-05-14, 14:04 | Message # 4
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That's funny, I was actually thinking that it would be best for larger maps because they are: (1) Larger, and (2) easier to run out of bangs on. Also, in response to raptor, it seemed to me that perhaps using a bang launcher would be best for those times that EL's find themselves with a bunch of new players - when bangs will be misthrown, misused and gone fast.
 
ShadowManuDate: Monday, 2012-05-14, 14:42 | Message # 5
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Well... As Raptor said, it can be good/bad depending on the situation, and the most important variable that defines its utility is the map size. Imo: All the standard maps have a size where a GL is NOT needed. 3/4 flashes and 3 C2 per officer is more than need (and it is probably more than a SWAT officer may have available for each mission in real life).

Yet, it is true that some custom maps may you loose those flashes easily. A GL is useful on those situations, where you surely need more flashes because the mission difficulty and size is much more higher.

It is also too damn easy to just go flashing everywhere like a noob xD


 
HerbplantDate: Thursday, 2012-05-17, 00:39 | Message # 6
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Very well thought Phill.

We currently use it when the lead requires an Spec Ops, or a Scout. And, of course, it's used with a lethal support, because in AST we don't run with both less lethal, no matter if secondary or primary, but at least one lethal.

But I share with Rap's opinion, the greanade launcher in SWAT 4 is not accurate in large maps, in medium to long range situations, so its more a tool for CQB(close quarters), ant its hit is like a punch, so its useful with an experient guy.

Very good contribution for this section, lets do it more.


If fail in anything, try again. You will be able to shake the world. Believe!
 
SAS_RandomDate: Thursday, 2012-05-31, 13:16 | Message # 7
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Lots of good suggestions on the use of the GL. I agree with the opinion that, on most maps and with a reasonably sized team, the GL is not needed and limits the lethality of one of the players.

Not to say that it's not handy from time to time. For example, small teams taking on big maps might enjoy the extra tacaids if everyone can stay relatively healthy, but may really suffer from the loss of an important weapon--especially if someone is incapacitated and you find yourself down a man and one of your remaining few has no lethal primary.

In team sizes 6 and up, I can see a real benefit from the GL. Perhaps you can avoid the "flashing everything like a noob" by filling the GL with batons and having a back-up bring it for subduing non-compliant subjects, especially if you aren't equipping tasers and are adverse to punching.

I may also suggest, again in team sizes of 6 or more, NOT taking the ammo pouch for the GL and perhaps loading it with CS to be used to soften up large rooms with lots of cover for the tangos that may render flash bangs less effective, or for deployment to the far end of a hall or up/down one level of stairs from your team, to provide a buffer from wandering tangos while you assault other rooms.

As far as who may carry it in the element, that depends on your assault team size. If you have a 2 man assault team in front of the EL, you may want your 4th man to carry it. If you put 3 men in front of the EL, perhaps the EL should have it.

With a team of 7 or more, you may want a 3 man team both ahead and behind the EL each to have a launcher carried by the 3rd man. This allows you to divide the map giving both teams different rooms on the same floor to clear simultaneously.

The GL functionality is only limited by your imagination. There are lots of various grenades and ways to use them. As Herbie said, a direct hit with any grenade works much like a punch.

In the SAS Mod you can fire grenades in semi-auto rapid succession instead of single shot and reload in the original game. Another great feature of the SAS Mod!


SAS_Vet_Random
Lt. Colonel (Retired)
22nd SAS Elite Virtual Regiment
www.sasclan.org
 
ShadowManuDate: Thursday, 2012-05-31, 15:40 | Message # 8
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Quote (SAS_Random)
In the SAS Mod you can fire grenades in semi-auto rapid succession instead of single shot and reload in the original game. Another great feature of the SAS Mod!


I can now see myself flashing like a noob xD


 
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