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Debate - Checking door locks
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| Raptor | Date: Friday, 2012-06-15, 03:20 | Message # 1 |
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| I'm too lazy to write about this issue in details right now, so let's make a small quiz:
Are there any tactical disadvantages when checking the lock of a door (in the SAS mod)? If "yes", which exactly? If "no", are you sure?
(developers of the mod are not allowed to take part  )
"Teamwork is essential, it gives them someone else to shoot at."
Murphy's Laws of Combat #9
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| Lecter | Date: Friday, 2012-06-15, 08:00 | Message # 2 |
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| Depending on situation. If you need to move fast, like dynamic all the way, then checking locks is unnecessary stop. But then again, if you go fast, then you dont bother with doors, since breaching shotgun usually makes the entry. But anyway, I dont think it has any significant tactical disadvantages... Yes, I am shur.
May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house
,,Not a single chainsaw was given that day...''
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| TheIceMan | Date: Friday, 2012-06-15, 08:21 | Message # 3 |
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| Well in a game...its a cool feature but in real it would be compromising tool...imagine if sus is aiming at the door and you are trying to open the door using handle sus can see a movement of handle and can shoot the door....
Drago: "If you need to move fast, like dynamic all the way, then checking locks is unnecessary stop"...well if you have breaching shotgun dont need to even check it during fast dynamic movements...and if you dont have shotgun it takes like 0.01 sec to check so no drastical stop...
Added (15/06/2012, 8:21 AM)
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ADD: Real SWAT dont check doors they just breach and go...not check and go....
If move stealth they pick without checking cause as I said sus can see moving handle but picking a lock makes noises as well. But before action they have floor plans and know where suses are at least in which rooms (using snipers, witness´ s testimony, and other tools) so they can use stealth movement when they are far from suspects and dynamic when they are close (the room where suses are). As in SAS embassy siege action they used airplane to cover they approach in a building...Airplane camouflaged noises inside of the building.
No Retreat No Surrender
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| Raptor | Date: Saturday, 2012-06-16, 02:03 | Message # 4 |
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| Quote (Drago) I dont think it has any significant tactical disadvantage
I was asking for any tactical disadvantage, not only for significant ones.
Quote (TheIceMan) in real it would be compromising tool
I wasn't asking for real life (yet).
So I'm still waiting for an exact answer, preferably a correct one
"Teamwork is essential, it gives them someone else to shoot at."
Murphy's Laws of Combat #9
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| TheIceMan | Date: Saturday, 2012-06-16, 10:05 | Message # 5 |
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| Quote TheIceMan: Well in a game...its a cool feature
No Retreat No Surrender
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| Lecter | Date: Saturday, 2012-06-16, 10:24 | Message # 6 |
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| No
May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house
,,Not a single chainsaw was given that day...''
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| Raptor | Date: Monday, 2012-07-02, 11:20 | Message # 7 |
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| Well, have a look at http://sas-mod.net46.net/index.p...._why%3F
Quote If the door is LOCKED you will hear the standard sound of a locked door (be careful because this may alert suspects behind door!)
Audible target indicator, anyone?
So next question: Concerning the disadvantage mentioned above, when and how should the TryDoor-Function be used?
[Btw: I try to get some movement in this thread/section by asking questions first instead of just giving my opinion...didn't worked that well yet...]
"Teamwork is essential, it gives them someone else to shoot at."
Murphy's Laws of Combat #9
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| Sokol | Date: Monday, 2012-07-02, 22:28 | Message # 8 |
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| Quote (Raptor) So next question: Concerning the disadvantage mentioned above, when and how should the TryDoor-Function be used?
That's a good question there. You can use it in two possible scenarios, when going stealth or while being compromised.
If you use it while going stealth then you might risk being detected by suspectsQuote (Raptor) (be careful because this may alert suspects behind door!)
But if you think about it , how much noise can a lock-check operation produce anyway? You hear it as a low "click" (kinda xD) noise and that is while being in close proximity to the door.Suspects could get alerted if: 1) they are in close proximity to the door
2) if the background noise is zero or close to it (if there is no other noise in the background then suspect that is relativly "far" away from door could hear this operation)
Why did I mention 2) ? Well you know how in some maps like Old Granite Hotel,Sellers Street Auditorium,Stetchkov Warehouse (some parts of it) and probably many other maps there is a certain level of noise going on in the background which could mask the sound of lock-checking.
For those maps that are really really quite like Children of Tarrone,Fairfax,Hospital the lock-checking operation would produce much more noise.
Then there is different situation , while being compromised.
I don't really see the point of lock-check operation while being compromised because you will mainly use tacaids and/or breaching devices automatically on the door.
Let's say we forget about all this silent,compromised stuff, there is one situation where lock-check could be applied and that is when doing double entries. It's much more faster and safer to simply check the lock and report "Locked" , "Unlocked" and then pick/wait for orders (depending on whether the door is locked,unlocked). You could of course stack at the door and while leader is giving orders pick it but then there is one officer less to cover himself/his team (altough the time which is needed to pick lock is rather minimum).
Sorry in advance if I repeated what someone else already said.
Hope my post makes sense xD
Message edited by Sokol - Monday, 2012-07-02, 22:31 |
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| Raptor | Date: Tuesday, 2012-07-03, 11:00 | Message # 9 |
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| Quote (Sokol) But if you think about it , how much noise can a lock-check operation produce anyway?
Tautology fo free: an unnecessary target indicator is a target indicator and unnecessary
Flagging your gun muzzel at a corner or doorway is also just pretty small target indicator. Tangos must be close and also facing to notice it. Nevertheless we seek to avoid it.
Simple thing: while moving stealth the goal is to minimize target indicator production.
So question is still open
"Teamwork is essential, it gives them someone else to shoot at."
Murphy's Laws of Combat #9
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| Sokol | Date: Tuesday, 2012-07-03, 11:32 | Message # 10 |
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| That's true.
But what about Old Granite Hotel map? There is that constant alarm going on in the background which could definitely mask the sound of a simple door-lock check operation.Even if you are moving stealthy, I doubt suspects could hear you trying the lock while that alarm is on.
Same goes for other maps that have specific type of noise going on in the background.Type of noise which is higher pitched than door-lock check operation.
So if there is no background noise and you are moving stealthy, then this operation is potentially dangerous like you said.
Now that I've read what others wrote I agree with the following statement :
Quote (TheIceMan) and if you dont have shotgun it takes like 0.01 sec to check so no drastical stop
Advantages:
When dynamic mode is "on" you can freely use this function and you don't have to worry about producing any noise indicator which could blew your cover (since you are already compromised).
Disadvantages:
While moving stealthy you produce a sound indicator which could possibly alert suspects and compromise your team/your position.
Message edited by Sokol - Tuesday, 2012-07-03, 11:58 |
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