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Forums » Discussions » Tactics and Techniques » Debate - Dynamic Scan
Debate - Dynamic Scan
StruisDate: Saturday, 2012-07-28, 20:33 | Message # 1
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We had a nice training session yesterday which showed many tactics you guys use here at AST. Although most of them weren't new to me, it was nice to see them in action and also get some background information about them.

There is one tactic though that I can't help but dislike. It's the 'dynamic scan'. I know that it's realistic to do the last part of the scan in a dynamic way, but I just don't like the way it's done right now.

The exact problem I have with it is the part at which you start the dynamic movement and turn your eyes and weapon away from the area you're actually scanning. I understand that this is done because of the fact that strafing, even when doing it dynamicly, is just not fast enough. But in my opinion the gain of speed just doesn't compensate enough for loosing sight of the area you're scanning.

At first I thought that the game just doesn't allow you to do a realistic dynamic scan. However, I started doing some experimenting and I think I might have found an alternative way of doing a dynamic scan. It's done by running diagonally during the dynamic phase of the scan. Like I said earlier, strafing dynamicly just isn't that fast at all, but running diagonally allows you to move just as fast as while running straight forward. But most of all, it will allow you to keep facing the area you are scanning. I've added a (very simplistic) image to show the difference in movement and the position of the coverman at the end of the scan.

Here's also a list of pros and cons of this way of dynamic scanning to sum things up a bit:

Pros:
- You're always facing the area you're scanning, which allows you to notice and respond faster to any potential threats.
- You can end the scan the moment you spot a suspect, which may prevent further exposure towards other potential threats.
- It's more realistic this way since you don't stop facing the area that you're scanning in real life either.

Cons:
- You're moving closer towards any potential threat in the dangerzone.
- In certain situations you may actually expose yourself more towards dangerous areas at the left side (for example there's an open door right around the corner).

Anyway, I'm curious what you guys think about this. And remember, this post is just for the purpose of a tactical discussion, not to point out in any way that I think that your tactics are bad or that I think I know things better.
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ShadowManuDate: Saturday, 2012-07-28, 20:48 | Message # 2
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Quote (Struis)
Anyway, I'm curious what you guys think about this. And remember, this post is just for the purpose of a tactical discussion, not to point out in any way that I think that your tactics are bad or that I think I know things better.


This section isn't called "Development" for nothing. It is created for tactical debating to develop better tactics. And thanks for the argued point about the dynamic scan.

To be precise, I don't know too much of this tactic since it was created under times of low activity of myself. Yet, I do agree with you with you. In fact, If I can remember, there was a couple of police instructors that, when teaching civil people how to make a scan over a corner, they taught that when crossing the "perpendicular imaginary extended line of the non-viewable wall of the corner", you should make the scan more dinamically if you know that the distance to the far wall is close enough for it.

As I said again, thanks for showing us an argument-based point of view of a tactic. This is what we expect from good allies :D.


 
TheIceManDate: Saturday, 2012-07-28, 21:17 | Message # 3
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Thanks for posting Stru. I agree with you that you are facing to scanning part but you are also running closer to suspect and on your picture the pointman is not moving with scanner so basically he is also moving further by his pointman so basically he is losing the support of pointman. But as we showed on training the pointman is giving support to scanner. So they are actually moving at the same time. So the suspect cant aim at 2 officers at the same time. So basically the scanner is bait and also he is not active shooter cause he is not facing to danger zone but his pointman is. Maybe the name of this movement is wrong as we are doing. Cause the coverman is not basically scanning cause he can see 12 before scan but he absolutelly fully cant see the danger zone according to your picture on left side. So he can just shoot by reaction reflex if someone would shoot at him and he must be very good shooter. And when I am thinking about it the suspect has advantage cause he can wait when the officer will reach his checkpoint and shoot him before he will start the turn to danger zone (again according to your picture without pointman´s cover support). But we will develop another move I just heard that Raptor has something new. So before we put this move to our arsenal we must test it first. So be patient : )



No Retreat No Surrender
 
RaptorDate: Sunday, 2012-07-29, 08:55 | Message # 4
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Quote (ShadowManu)

This section isn't called "Development" for nothing. It is created for tactical debating to develop better tactics. And thanks for the argued point about the dynamic scan.

+1

Nice idea Struis, but as Ice already said: we need to test it ingame.
Dynamic tactics work, if they suprise the enemy and your action time beats his reaction time. That's pretty difficult to test on AI suspects, because they hesitate in some weird situations. So actually I have a force-on-force training in mind: humans "playing" against humans to test under which conditions our tactics work. What happens if a tango doesn't hesitate but starts to shoot at everything that moves? What if he doesn't aim at the first operator but keeps on suppressing fire at the fatal funnel?

Quote (Struis)
- You can end the scan the moment you spot a suspect, which may prevent further exposure towards other potential threats.

How do you cover a corner? Probably, like most people, you aim directly close to the inside wall. That's the point where a threat may appear.
So if the dynamic scan stops too soon, the operator ends up directly in this point and the bad guy just needs to pull the trigger. If the operator keeps on moving, the tango is "forced" to correct his aim (a moving target is hard to hit). So the scanner draws the fire away from the corner, and exactly that's the splitsecond when the pointman should pop up and start covering the hallway.
But honestly we do no use the dynamic scan often, and I would really like to see how this (and some other stuff) works force-on-force wink


"Teamwork is essential, it gives them someone else to shoot at."
Murphy's Laws of Combat #9
 
LuisDate: Sunday, 2012-07-29, 15:23 | Message # 5
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Well I liked Cain´s Idea of the police peek. It´s when the scanner instead of running across the room to the other side just takes a quick peek around the corner and comes back.

About the police peek:
Good stuff


Bad Stuff


 
HerbplantDate: Friday, 2012-08-03, 11:40 | Message # 6
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the game limit is: we cant move our head.
Thats why we've been making the current way.

Is the same basic as the room clearing, you dont need necessarely to look(in game) to the side until you reach your checkpoint.

But thats nice you discovered a mid-term between both, running and scanning.


If fail in anything, try again. You will be able to shake the world. Believe!
 
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